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welcome to the skeptic Zone the podcast

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from Australia for science and reason

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[Applause]

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yes it's the skeptic Zone podcast

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episode number

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736 for the 13th of November 2022

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Richard Saunders coming to you early in

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the morning

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the sun is not risen the birds are

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singing now here in Sydney Australia and

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we are just today waiting for storms to

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roll through

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more rain hopefully not more flooding in

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the past week my friends we've lost a

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couple of major characters major people

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in the world of skepticism and Magic

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a lovely magician by the name of Max

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Marvin died in the uh the past week or

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so and I met Max at the amazing meeting

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in Las Vegas some years ago when I was

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uh

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part of the organizing committee for the

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million dollar challenge James Randy

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million dollar Challenge and I don't

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remember the exact challenge we were

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dealing with but Max Marvin was there to

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cast an eye over some of our protocols

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and

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generally interact

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and

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although I didn't meet him very often

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maybe once or twice I know he was a

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giant figure in the world of uh magic

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Conjuring The Conjuring arts and a good

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friend of James Randy

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and then we heard of the death of a

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a giant in the

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history of modern skepticism Kendrick

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Frazier the longtime editor of the

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skeptical Inquirer magazine I met

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Kendrick on a number of occasions in Las

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Vegas for sure probably at other cycon

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meetings

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but in more recent years I had the

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pleasure of meeting Ken in Albuquerque

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New Mexico where he lived when I was

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visiting Ben Radford so later on in the

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show in the Trove segment we'll be

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looking at some of the press reports

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about Kendrick Frazier

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going back very many years and his

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skeptical activities but what else do we

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have coming up this week we're going to

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start with me

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uh

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out a letter I received many years ago

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almost 20 years ago from a correspondent

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who was not very happy

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not very happy with me in particular in

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the skeptical movement for our lack of

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action

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what's that all about an interesting and

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sad letter coming up at the top of the

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show

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following that it's another reference

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to Kendrick Frazier in a way

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Adrian Hill looks at his daughter

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Michelle who became known as lady Ganga

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and sadly she died some years ago

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why she became noteworthy why she's

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known as lady Gengar find out coming up

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with Adrian Hill

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then we have more reports more on the

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spot interviews from Rob Palmer at the

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recent psychon the committee for

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skeptical inquiries convention in Las

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Vegas and amongst other people this week

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uh Rob catches up with my friend and

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fellow podcaster from the data skeptic

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Carl polish

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then to round off as I mentioned before

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the Trove segment with the reports on

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Kendrick Frazier now Sydney people if

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you haven't done so already head to

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skepticzone.tv look at the show notes

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for this week and you'll see a link

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to the upcoming Skeptics in the pub on

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the night of the 24th of this month

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Thursday downtown Sydney we have a

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wonderful lineup of skeptical people for

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you to meet including the ESP podcast

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all the way from Europe

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Claire klingenberg all the way from

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Europe and Dr Carl krystalninski all the

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way from Sydney

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all those wonderful people will be there

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to give little presentations in mingle

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and chat with you take your questions

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all at Skeptics in the pub coming up but

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places are limited so head for

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skepticzone.tv or head for meetup and

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look for Australian Skeptics and

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register your seat as it were also

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another plea if you know friends or

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family who live in the Australian

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Capital territory or nearby

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uh don't forget to let them know there's

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a skeptical convention coming up at the

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uh at the National Library of Australia

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and that will be on the third and fourth

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of December wonderful Stars appearing

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there including the aforementioned ESP

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podcast and clay klingenberg and a host

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of local

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scientists and other speakers the

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Australian Skeptics National Convention

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and if you go to

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skepticon.org.eu all the information is

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there but really if you do have friends

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or family who live in Canberra or the

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surrounding areas are a favor to me

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please let them know about this

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convention because it would be very easy

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indeed for them to go along and have a

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wonderful weekend the third and fourth

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of December

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and don't forget on Saturday night at

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the convention there is the annual

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Australian Skeptics dinner

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free course meal and guest speaker and

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you can book all that at skepticon.org

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dot a u and we'll all get to know who

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will win the bent spoon award this year

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but now it's time for me to run

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downstairs

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and as the sun yes looking out the

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window there the sky is turning a little

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bit brighter as the sun rises before the

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rain falls

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I think I'll have a bowl of soup with

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crusty toast sounds good to me

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while I do that I hope you enjoy the

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[Applause]

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[Music]

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now folks over the years of the 20 odd

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years of very odd years I've been

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involved in the skeptical movement I've

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received lots of Correspondence you can

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imagine

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mostly I'm very pleased to stay mostly

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it's been quite positive letters about

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the skeptic zone or the Australian

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Skeptics or some work we might have done

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not floods of it but it's very nice but

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of course

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people writing to us because they think

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we're evil we get people writing to us

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because they think we're just plainly

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wrong and this or that area

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people get uh very annoyed with this

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angry with us from time to time because

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we don't happen to believe in their pet

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subject or we're not skeptical of the

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same thing they are skeptical of

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and that fits broadly in the

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within the logical fallacy of relative

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probation and you can hear more about

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that fallacy if you go down to the link

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on skepticzone.tv down the right side of

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the page the picture of Michelle

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bickersma who two years ago did a series

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of 40 logical fallacies which we

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broadcast on the skeptic Zone and

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they're all there now on YouTube and

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you've probably heard the uh the

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promotions for those over the years

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in the supermarket where the skeptical

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Fairy Godmother angel from the internet

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comes down and tells Adrian and Susan

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about the logical fallacies

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if you haven't heard those

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they would recommend you go to that link

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because they're all there in uh in very

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handy time codes so you can hear each

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one they they all go for about five

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minutes but I'd digress yes we've

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received

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many letters

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people will write to us because they

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think we can instantly fix or change or

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do something

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how often have we heard the expression

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ah you Skeptics you know you should

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attack this do this fix this

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bring this person to Justice stop this

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going on

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as if we can all ride in on a white

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horse and say aha villain

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we have you if only

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now this brings me to

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one of the more interesting letters I've

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received over the years

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and I'm sure our editor Tim Mendham of

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the skeptic magazine could probably fill

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a thousand episodes of the skeptic Zone

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with the

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interesting correspondence he gets but

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I'll read this one no name partly

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because the name is

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too hard to read it's a squiggle

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signature and I can sort of make it out

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a little bit but I really can't

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the letter appears to be typed

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as in with a typewriter and it dates

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from nearly 20 years ago

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and it's the result I believe it's the

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result of me appearing on the television

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show called a current affair almost 20

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years ago when I was talking about the

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so-called medium John Edward now John

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Edward before the pandemic would come to

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Australia twice a year for very many

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years once in the middle of the year to

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promote his

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uh tour which would occur in the end of

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the the end of the year around November

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December

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and whenever John Edward step foot in

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the country he would be instantly picked

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up by radio television programs and um

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hardly a skeptical word was said

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so I was asked to appear on one of these

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shows and I gave my opinion that uh John

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Edward was probably using

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tried and true stage

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cold reading routines and Etc anyway so

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I think this is why this letter was sent

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Dear Mr Saunders I am aware of your

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organization blandly called Skeptics

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is nothing but a bunch of publicity

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seeking blowhards

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my opinion confirmed by your recent limp

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wristed attack on John Edward your weak

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bleatings in no way proved him a fraud

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Edward alleviated his Australian

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audiences of one million dollars perhaps

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more so evidently my opinion of your bag

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of wind Club is shared by at least one

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other person again sometimes I wonder

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what these people expect we can

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magically do

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we read on I previously wrote to you now

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I'm not sure when he says I previously

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wrote to you whether he means me

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personally because I didn't receive

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anything before or you as in the

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Australian Skeptics I suspect it means

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the Australian Skeptics I previously

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wrote to you about a chiropractic

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practice called the activator which is

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as effective as a stick with the star

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stuck on the end not unexpectedly my

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letter was rudely ignored the subject

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not being headline material

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gutless though your bag of wind Club

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undoubtedly is I would like to alert

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someone anyone about two more rots in

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Chiropractic practice now I'll read

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these uh paragraphs I'm not exactly sure

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of some of the terminology so please

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give me a little bit of leeway here

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the petty Bond technique originating

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from an American technique Peddler of

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the same name This concerns the skull's

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foramen magnum with the atlas vertebrae

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restoration to the correct position of

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these two anatomical parts will cure all

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Mankind's sufferings

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the Sacro occipital technique performed

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with the aid of two wedges strategically

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00:13:27,350 --> 00:13:26,160
placed with a 180 kilogram male might

282
00:13:31,009 --> 00:13:27,360
have some effect

283
00:13:34,250 --> 00:13:31,019
on a 50 kilogram girl is about as

284
00:13:36,050 --> 00:13:34,260
effective as a feather in the wind this

285
00:13:37,970 --> 00:13:36,060
correspondent certainly likes talking

286
00:13:41,629 --> 00:13:37,980
about the wind

287
00:13:44,750 --> 00:13:41,639
all of these cure-all techniques will

288
00:13:46,370 --> 00:13:44,760
not stand the test of Newton's Laws

289
00:13:49,970 --> 00:13:46,380
hmm

290
00:13:51,590 --> 00:13:49,980
if you are as I suspect nothing but a

291
00:13:55,370 --> 00:13:51,600
bunch of pimples

292
00:13:58,850 --> 00:13:55,380
on the of time you will ignore

293
00:14:00,889 --> 00:13:58,860
this letter as you did my first however

294
00:14:03,530 --> 00:14:00,899
I personally challenge you to

295
00:14:07,129 --> 00:14:03,540
investigate the facts I have raised

296
00:14:09,949 --> 00:14:07,139
but I suspect you will fail again

297
00:14:13,610 --> 00:14:09,959
dismally as you did

298
00:14:14,930 --> 00:14:13,620
with Edward yours etc

299
00:14:17,750 --> 00:14:14,940
etc

300
00:14:19,009 --> 00:14:17,760
so it's interesting that uh I did what I

301
00:14:23,449 --> 00:14:19,019
could

302
00:14:25,190 --> 00:14:23,459
we alerted the media the media came to

303
00:14:27,829 --> 00:14:25,200
us we publicized the fact what we

304
00:14:29,629 --> 00:14:27,839
thought of Edward but somehow and not

305
00:14:31,610 --> 00:14:29,639
unsurprisingly the rest of the media

306
00:14:33,889 --> 00:14:31,620
were happy to have John Edward on

307
00:14:36,710 --> 00:14:33,899
because they know he rates

308
00:14:40,430 --> 00:14:36,720
and he did his shows and he left that

309
00:14:41,990 --> 00:14:40,440
somehow we have failed dismally well I

310
00:14:43,970 --> 00:14:42,000
wish there was more we could do or I

311
00:14:46,310 --> 00:14:43,980
wish that more of the media would pay

312
00:14:48,769 --> 00:14:46,320
attention to what we say after

313
00:14:50,990 --> 00:14:48,779
over 40 years of the Australian Skeptics

314
00:14:53,389 --> 00:14:51,000
I think we've earned the right to uh

315
00:14:56,230 --> 00:14:53,399
some respect but that's not how this

316
00:14:59,329 --> 00:14:56,240
works at all and we can look at it that

317
00:15:00,850 --> 00:14:59,339
in the 50 plus years of the modern

318
00:15:04,069 --> 00:15:00,860
skeptical movement

319
00:15:06,290 --> 00:15:04,079
uh it's clear that no psychic

320
00:15:08,870 --> 00:15:06,300
Clairvoyant anyone with a paranormal

321
00:15:10,850 --> 00:15:08,880
claim has stepped up to demonstrate

322
00:15:11,810 --> 00:15:10,860
their claim and change the mind of

323
00:15:14,150 --> 00:15:11,820
science

324
00:15:15,769 --> 00:15:14,160
sort of really doesn't matter because as

325
00:15:17,629 --> 00:15:15,779
soon as somebody comes along who is

326
00:15:21,050 --> 00:15:17,639
newsworthy

327
00:15:24,230 --> 00:15:21,060
and the media know it and that person

328
00:15:27,710 --> 00:15:24,240
will get publicity that's simply the way

329
00:15:30,590 --> 00:15:27,720
it works but I will say of course we

330
00:15:33,710 --> 00:15:30,600
have our successes we have made

331
00:15:37,009 --> 00:15:33,720
or brought about many changes softly

332
00:15:40,370 --> 00:15:37,019
quietly slowly sometimes with a lot of

333
00:15:42,650 --> 00:15:40,380
effort indeed a lot of effort mostly by

334
00:15:44,629 --> 00:15:42,660
volunteers I think of our friends at the

335
00:15:46,250 --> 00:15:44,639
good thinking Society in the UK in their

336
00:15:48,550 --> 00:15:46,260
fight against Homeopathy on the National

337
00:15:51,829 --> 00:15:48,560
Health over there they have had

338
00:15:54,290 --> 00:15:51,839
wonderful success in making huge inroads

339
00:15:56,689 --> 00:15:54,300
and they should be applauded for that

340
00:15:58,850 --> 00:15:56,699
but it's not as if I get back to my

341
00:16:00,590 --> 00:15:58,860
earlier point it's not as if people can

342
00:16:02,509 --> 00:16:00,600
write to us and say do something about

343
00:16:04,069 --> 00:16:02,519
this that or the other and we say right

344
00:16:05,750 --> 00:16:04,079
here we go where's the white horse

345
00:16:07,610 --> 00:16:05,760
gallop Gallop gallop

346
00:16:10,550 --> 00:16:07,620
we got you

347
00:16:12,769 --> 00:16:10,560
it just doesn't work like that and it's

348
00:16:14,629 --> 00:16:12,779
interesting how many people get quite

349
00:16:16,009 --> 00:16:14,639
angry with the Skeptics because once

350
00:16:18,829 --> 00:16:16,019
again we're not skeptical of the things

351
00:16:20,870 --> 00:16:18,839
they're skeptical of mostly politicians

352
00:16:23,689 --> 00:16:20,880
we might be skeptical of politicians but

353
00:16:27,230 --> 00:16:23,699
it's sort of outside the sphere of what

354
00:16:29,150 --> 00:16:27,240
we do personally my specialty is the

355
00:16:31,490 --> 00:16:29,160
old-fashioned stuff the ghosts the UFOs

356
00:16:33,050 --> 00:16:31,500
the ESP the cold reading the bigfoots

357
00:16:35,449 --> 00:16:33,060
the uh

358
00:16:36,470 --> 00:16:35,459
the water divining and that sort of

359
00:16:38,269 --> 00:16:36,480
stuff

360
00:16:40,610 --> 00:16:38,279
more recently we have people more

361
00:16:44,090 --> 00:16:40,620
interested in conspiracy theories and

362
00:16:46,129 --> 00:16:44,100
medical fraud Homeopathy and that sort

363
00:16:47,990 --> 00:16:46,139
of thing but no matter the topic no

364
00:16:49,970 --> 00:16:48,000
matter the skeptical topic

365
00:16:52,670 --> 00:16:49,980
it's not as if we can just as I say

366
00:16:56,269 --> 00:16:52,680
write in and make things change despite

367
00:16:59,629 --> 00:16:56,279
the disappointment shown almost 20 years

368
00:17:02,030 --> 00:16:59,639
ago by this correspondent and I must say

369
00:17:04,370 --> 00:17:02,040
in closing that I've been called many

370
00:17:05,449 --> 00:17:04,380
things in my time being in the skeptical

371
00:17:07,789 --> 00:17:05,459
movement

372
00:17:11,169 --> 00:17:07,799
the anti-vaxxers the Australian

373
00:17:16,730 --> 00:17:11,179
vaccination Network or the ilk called me

374
00:17:20,990 --> 00:17:16,740
a Mouseketeer only evil but to be called

375
00:17:23,929 --> 00:17:21,000
a pimple on the of time I think

376
00:17:25,789 --> 00:17:23,939
that takes the cake

377
00:17:28,069 --> 00:17:25,799
I wonder how many of my skeptical

378
00:17:30,650 --> 00:17:28,079
colleagues in the podcasting business in

379
00:17:32,630 --> 00:17:30,660
the magazine business also receive

380
00:17:34,310 --> 00:17:32,640
interesting letters

381
00:17:37,789 --> 00:17:34,320
I think I might have a word to Tim

382
00:17:40,610 --> 00:17:37,799
Mendham I think he he would have a few

383
00:17:43,070 --> 00:17:40,620
to show me

384
00:17:43,080 --> 00:18:05,289
[Music]

385
00:18:11,540 --> 00:18:08,029
.com and get lots of free stuff there as

386
00:18:27,049 --> 00:18:13,010
[Music]

387
00:18:27,059 --> 00:18:33,110
with Adrian Hill

388
00:18:38,090 --> 00:18:35,570
hello everyone this is Adrian Hill from

389
00:18:40,370 --> 00:18:38,100
Canada here to talk about a courageous

390
00:18:41,150 --> 00:18:40,380
but sad story that many of you may not

391
00:18:43,909 --> 00:18:41,160
know

392
00:18:45,710 --> 00:18:43,919
as Richard noted in the introduction a

393
00:18:48,650 --> 00:18:45,720
friend of Science and skeptical thinking

394
00:18:50,810 --> 00:18:48,660
Kendrick Fraser died this week

395
00:18:53,150 --> 00:18:50,820
I never had the pleasure of meeting

396
00:18:55,370 --> 00:18:53,160
Kendrick though I had hoped to meet him

397
00:18:57,710 --> 00:18:55,380
at cycon as he was scheduled to speak at

398
00:18:59,930 --> 00:18:57,720
the opening remarks but could not attend

399
00:19:02,150 --> 00:18:59,940
due to his declining health

400
00:19:04,010 --> 00:19:02,160
I wanted to meet him because I had

401
00:19:07,310 --> 00:19:04,020
written the Wikipedia page for his

402
00:19:09,529 --> 00:19:07,320
daughter Michelle in 2021

403
00:19:12,289 --> 00:19:09,539
Susan gerbeck keeps a running list of

404
00:19:14,390 --> 00:19:12,299
possible Pages for us gsow editors to

405
00:19:16,130 --> 00:19:14,400
work on and this was one she suggested

406
00:19:19,010 --> 00:19:16,140
that I should take on

407
00:19:21,409 --> 00:19:19,020
by writing her Wikipedia page I became

408
00:19:23,450 --> 00:19:21,419
quite attached to her and her story so I

409
00:19:26,029 --> 00:19:23,460
hope you find her tale as inspirational

410
00:19:28,190 --> 00:19:26,039
as I did

411
00:19:31,250 --> 00:19:28,200
Michelle was diagnosed with cervical

412
00:19:33,950 --> 00:19:31,260
cancer in 2009 after going 10 years

413
00:19:36,169 --> 00:19:33,960
without having a Pap test partially due

414
00:19:38,210 --> 00:19:36,179
to not having health insurance

415
00:19:40,490 --> 00:19:38,220
the cancer occurred unfortunately

416
00:19:42,890 --> 00:19:40,500
despite undergoing chemotherapy and

417
00:19:45,529 --> 00:19:42,900
radiation and she was given only three

418
00:19:47,570 --> 00:19:45,539
to six months to live

419
00:19:49,730 --> 00:19:47,580
a visit to a friend's place in

420
00:19:52,430 --> 00:19:49,740
California where she took up stand-up

421
00:19:54,070 --> 00:19:52,440
paddle boarding morphed into a plan to

422
00:19:57,890 --> 00:19:54,080
raise awareness of the human

423
00:20:00,169 --> 00:19:57,900
papillonavirus or HPV vaccine and the

424
00:20:02,210 --> 00:20:00,179
importance of regular screening

425
00:20:04,730 --> 00:20:02,220
Michelle decided to stand up paddle

426
00:20:07,130 --> 00:20:04,740
board down the Ganges River or the ganga

427
00:20:10,130 --> 00:20:07,140
as it is called in India starting at

428
00:20:12,710 --> 00:20:10,140
rushukish and finishing at the Hindu

429
00:20:15,169 --> 00:20:12,720
holy city of Varanasi

430
00:20:17,330 --> 00:20:15,179
she chose India partly because she had

431
00:20:19,789 --> 00:20:17,340
been to the country before as a 19 year

432
00:20:21,830 --> 00:20:19,799
old where she discovered Buddhism and

433
00:20:23,810 --> 00:20:21,840
partly because of the high incidence of

434
00:20:28,310 --> 00:20:23,820
cervical cancer deaths there

435
00:20:29,930 --> 00:20:28,320
this 25-day 1100 kilometer Adventure set

436
00:20:32,090 --> 00:20:29,940
a woman's world record for paddle

437
00:20:34,970 --> 00:20:32,100
boarding and attracted the attention of

438
00:20:36,590 --> 00:20:34,980
local and American Media Michelle's

439
00:20:38,750 --> 00:20:36,600
friend and filmmaker Nat Stone

440
00:20:40,610 --> 00:20:38,760
accompanied her to record the journey

441
00:20:43,070 --> 00:20:40,620
and to operate a support boat that

442
00:20:45,350 --> 00:20:43,080
contained camera equipment and supplies

443
00:20:47,390 --> 00:20:45,360
for 10 to 12 hours each day Michelle

444
00:20:49,789 --> 00:20:47,400
stood paddling and Performing Tibetan

445
00:20:51,470 --> 00:20:49,799
prayers for the dying sometimes stopping

446
00:20:52,730 --> 00:20:51,480
to give local children rides on her

447
00:20:54,770 --> 00:20:52,740
paddle board

448
00:20:58,850 --> 00:20:54,780
people would line the river watching for

449
00:21:00,950 --> 00:20:58,860
the woman they had nicknamed lady Ganga

450
00:21:02,990 --> 00:21:00,960
ten weeks after returning from this

451
00:21:06,529 --> 00:21:03,000
remarkable Journey Michelle died at her

452
00:21:08,870 --> 00:21:06,539
home in Albuquerque she was only 45.

453
00:21:11,930 --> 00:21:08,880
three years after Michelle's death in

454
00:21:13,490 --> 00:21:11,940
2015 filmmakers Mark Hefty and Frederick

455
00:21:15,890 --> 00:21:13,500
Lumiere released a beautiful

456
00:21:18,950 --> 00:21:15,900
award-winning documentary called lady

457
00:21:21,770 --> 00:21:18,960
ganga nilsa's story which you can watch

458
00:21:23,510 --> 00:21:21,780
by finding the link in the show notes

459
00:21:25,730 --> 00:21:23,520
I highly recommend watching this

460
00:21:27,529 --> 00:21:25,740
documentary but I will warn you have

461
00:21:29,210 --> 00:21:27,539
some tissue ready

462
00:21:31,490 --> 00:21:29,220
and if you would like to find out more

463
00:21:33,890 --> 00:21:31,500
about this incredible woman and her

464
00:21:36,770 --> 00:21:33,900
story check out the Wikipedia page

465
00:21:40,310 --> 00:21:36,780
titled lady Ganga

466
00:22:00,909 --> 00:21:40,320
until next time this is Adrian Hill

467
00:22:05,450 --> 00:22:02,830
hello

468
00:22:08,390 --> 00:22:05,460
did you know the European continent is

469
00:22:10,909 --> 00:22:08,400
home to almost 750 million people living

470
00:22:12,710 --> 00:22:10,919
in 50 different countries belonging to

471
00:22:15,169 --> 00:22:12,720
an even greater number of ethnicities

472
00:22:17,149 --> 00:22:15,179
and believe it or not only a handful of

473
00:22:19,250 --> 00:22:17,159
them list English as the first or at

474
00:22:20,870 --> 00:22:19,260
least one of the official languages and

475
00:22:22,970 --> 00:22:20,880
there's an amazing amount of skeptical

476
00:22:24,590 --> 00:22:22,980
activism going on out there that you are

477
00:22:26,870 --> 00:22:24,600
not aware of because it's not in English

478
00:22:29,270 --> 00:22:26,880
yeah because you know pseudoscience

479
00:22:31,370 --> 00:22:29,280
quackery and fake news do not stop at

480
00:22:33,230 --> 00:22:31,380
Borders they get translated to other

481
00:22:35,690 --> 00:22:33,240
languages and transferred across the

482
00:22:38,149 --> 00:22:35,700
whole world so if you're interested in

483
00:22:40,190 --> 00:22:38,159
weekly updates on what's going on in

484
00:22:42,409 --> 00:22:40,200
some of the countries here providing you

485
00:22:44,630 --> 00:22:42,419
with all the interesting facts news and

486
00:22:46,370 --> 00:22:44,640
even some skeptical history or if you

487
00:22:48,289 --> 00:22:46,380
want to hear your interviews in English

488
00:22:50,510 --> 00:22:48,299
with brilliant people you sometimes

489
00:22:53,330 --> 00:22:50,520
haven't even heard about then what you

490
00:22:55,430 --> 00:22:53,340
need is to subscribe to the ESP extra

491
00:22:59,570 --> 00:22:55,440
sensory perception you must be really

492
00:23:01,789 --> 00:22:59,580
wrong no the ESPN the European Skeptics

493
00:23:04,190 --> 00:23:01,799
podcast that's right and if you're

494
00:23:07,250 --> 00:23:04,200
wondering how you can find us online go

495
00:23:10,130 --> 00:23:07,260
to the esp.eu and you can also find us

496
00:23:12,350 --> 00:23:10,140
on Twitter at es podcast underscore EU

497
00:23:14,330 --> 00:23:12,360
or you can like us on Facebook and if

498
00:23:16,250 --> 00:23:14,340
you want to subscribe do a quick search

499
00:23:18,529 --> 00:23:16,260
on all the intertubes for the European

500
00:23:21,529 --> 00:23:18,539
Skeptics podcast you'll find us on

501
00:23:23,570 --> 00:23:21,539
Soundcloud iTunes Stitcher Spotify and

502
00:23:33,780 --> 00:23:23,580
all the rest the European Skeptics

503
00:23:46,250 --> 00:23:43,690
[Music]

504
00:23:49,130 --> 00:23:46,260
here's another cycon conference attendee

505
00:23:51,950 --> 00:23:49,140
who is willing to share his story with

506
00:23:54,409 --> 00:23:51,960
skeptic Zone listeners please introduce

507
00:23:56,390 --> 00:23:54,419
yourself my name is Kyle polich longtime

508
00:23:59,570 --> 00:23:56,400
skeptic Zone listener I do believe I've

509
00:24:01,789 --> 00:23:59,580
heard your voice in the podcast land you

510
00:24:03,950 --> 00:24:01,799
host the data skeptic podcast and I'm

511
00:24:05,810 --> 00:24:03,960
fortunate to get the promo on skeptic

512
00:24:08,450 --> 00:24:05,820
Zone every so often is this your first

513
00:24:11,029 --> 00:24:08,460
conference no no I was at one cycon

514
00:24:13,190 --> 00:24:11,039
before the great pandemic and a couple

515
00:24:15,590 --> 00:24:13,200
of times before that but this is my

516
00:24:17,149 --> 00:24:15,600
first actually even big event out since

517
00:24:20,810 --> 00:24:17,159
things kicked off I've been kind of a

518
00:24:22,430 --> 00:24:20,820
Hermit I saw you on Susan's trivia for

519
00:24:23,810 --> 00:24:22,440
uh one episode and we were talking about

520
00:24:25,789 --> 00:24:23,820
whether you were going to come and you

521
00:24:27,110 --> 00:24:25,799
were really hedging it so my

522
00:24:30,049 --> 00:24:27,120
understanding is you booked this really

523
00:24:32,870 --> 00:24:30,059
late you're not at this great Hotel you

524
00:24:34,669 --> 00:24:32,880
have to walk some great number of miles

525
00:24:37,010 --> 00:24:34,679
to get here right I have a 30 minute

526
00:24:38,390 --> 00:24:37,020
walk which is a well enjoyed walk an

527
00:24:40,610 --> 00:24:38,400
hour a day is a good little bit of

528
00:24:42,049 --> 00:24:40,620
exercise what have you enjoyed about the

529
00:24:43,130 --> 00:24:42,059
conference besides getting the exercise

530
00:24:44,270 --> 00:24:43,140
in

531
00:24:46,370 --> 00:24:44,280
um I mean like any good Skeptics

532
00:24:48,830 --> 00:24:46,380
conference seeing familiar faces and new

533
00:24:50,690 --> 00:24:48,840
faces and getting to have the kind of

534
00:24:53,930 --> 00:24:50,700
water cooler discussions that you can't

535
00:24:55,730 --> 00:24:53,940
quite get on a podcast or on a zoom but

536
00:24:57,470 --> 00:24:55,740
of course some outstanding talks as well

537
00:24:59,930 --> 00:24:57,480
and a couple of what were your favorites

538
00:25:01,430 --> 00:24:59,940
well um there were some great lecture is

539
00:25:02,750 --> 00:25:01,440
but if I had to pull out favorites I

540
00:25:04,730 --> 00:25:02,760
think it might be some of the Neil

541
00:25:07,130 --> 00:25:04,740
deGrasse Tyson moments or even today's

542
00:25:09,590 --> 00:25:07,140
session with Penn Gillette which I felt

543
00:25:11,450 --> 00:25:09,600
were like in the family events like I

544
00:25:13,010 --> 00:25:11,460
heard a couple of stories I'd never

545
00:25:14,649 --> 00:25:13,020
heard before I almost skipped a pen

546
00:25:16,789 --> 00:25:14,659
because I've heard him so many times

547
00:25:19,250 --> 00:25:16,799
Julia Sweeney pulled interesting stuff

548
00:25:21,289 --> 00:25:19,260
out of she sure did yeah and I heard a

549
00:25:23,210 --> 00:25:21,299
nuanced approach to ways in which I

550
00:25:25,730 --> 00:25:23,220
thought I understood him before and I

551
00:25:27,289 --> 00:25:25,740
didn't quite well but it also he talked

552
00:25:29,090 --> 00:25:27,299
about like none of us are the same

553
00:25:31,490 --> 00:25:29,100
person we were some years ago and he

554
00:25:33,830 --> 00:25:31,500
including himself yeah so even whatever

555
00:25:35,450 --> 00:25:33,840
you understood him to be before I think

556
00:25:36,950 --> 00:25:35,460
he's admitting he's changed and those

557
00:25:39,110 --> 00:25:36,960
are the skeptical moments to celebrate

558
00:25:40,730 --> 00:25:39,120
right right I have always hated when

559
00:25:42,590 --> 00:25:40,740
they say someone's a flip-flopper like

560
00:25:44,269 --> 00:25:42,600
it's bad like that's the thing you want

561
00:25:46,310 --> 00:25:44,279
you get new evidence you update your

562
00:25:48,649 --> 00:25:46,320
beliefs and what was the thing that

563
00:25:50,450 --> 00:25:48,659
changed his mind about I would still say

564
00:25:52,490 --> 00:25:50,460
he's a Libertarian I think he would say

565
00:25:54,470 --> 00:25:52,500
that's right but he has changed from

566
00:25:57,529 --> 00:25:54,480
like a hardcore libertarian because he

567
00:25:59,090 --> 00:25:57,539
got an e no an email yeah something what

568
00:26:01,490 --> 00:25:59,100
was this story there there was a big

569
00:26:03,830 --> 00:26:01,500
anti mask rally being planned in Las

570
00:26:05,630 --> 00:26:03,840
Vegas and not only did they reach out to

571
00:26:07,669 --> 00:26:05,640
him like will you host this but it was

572
00:26:09,950 --> 00:26:07,679
just presumptive like of course you will

573
00:26:12,529 --> 00:26:09,960
host this as if there was no discussion

574
00:26:15,289 --> 00:26:12,539
about it and yeah and and he is not an

575
00:26:17,269 --> 00:26:15,299
anti-mascara or an anti-vaxxer and took

576
00:26:19,610 --> 00:26:17,279
such an exception to this that it made

577
00:26:21,409 --> 00:26:19,620
him rethink his positions a free thinker

578
00:26:23,450 --> 00:26:21,419
in him that killed that Spirit yeah that

579
00:26:25,789 --> 00:26:23,460
was impressive tomorrow we'll get a

580
00:26:27,350 --> 00:26:25,799
little bit more time for cycon uh on

581
00:26:29,570 --> 00:26:27,360
Sunday so what are your plans for that

582
00:26:30,890 --> 00:26:29,580
day well obviously the Sunday papers

583
00:26:32,450 --> 00:26:30,900
which are a big highlight to the

584
00:26:34,370 --> 00:26:32,460
closeout of the conference you get to

585
00:26:36,710 --> 00:26:34,380
hear new ideas and up and coming

586
00:26:37,909 --> 00:26:36,720
speakers and get a more like intimate

587
00:26:39,289 --> 00:26:37,919
setting to hear what's going on in

588
00:26:40,190 --> 00:26:39,299
people's thoughts and there's something

589
00:26:42,409 --> 00:26:40,200
about

590
00:26:44,810 --> 00:26:42,419
skeptoy doing something indeed yeah

591
00:26:46,610 --> 00:26:44,820
there's um I'm not clear on it I'm not

592
00:26:48,230 --> 00:26:46,620
totally either my interpretation of it

593
00:26:49,370 --> 00:26:48,240
from skimming an email that I probably

594
00:26:51,289 --> 00:26:49,380
should have read better before talking

595
00:26:53,090 --> 00:26:51,299
on another podcast about it was that it

596
00:26:55,669 --> 00:26:53,100
was sort of an invitation to listeners

597
00:26:57,350 --> 00:26:55,679
to come in uh hear maybe a little about

598
00:26:58,909 --> 00:26:57,360
what they're being planning and get some

599
00:27:00,409 --> 00:26:58,919
feedback on what you'd like to hear more

600
00:27:02,149 --> 00:27:00,419
of and maybe less of on the show and

601
00:27:03,769 --> 00:27:02,159
that sort of thing yeah that was my take

602
00:27:05,690 --> 00:27:03,779
on it too well so we'll see how that

603
00:27:07,490 --> 00:27:05,700
goes yeah okay thank you for your time

604
00:27:10,370 --> 00:27:07,500
my pleasure

605
00:27:12,289 --> 00:27:10,380
so it's still Saturday night and there's

606
00:27:13,669 --> 00:27:12,299
only a little bit of the second

607
00:27:15,890 --> 00:27:13,679
conference left which is the Sunday

608
00:27:18,710 --> 00:27:15,900
morning pavers but I have run into

609
00:27:21,890 --> 00:27:18,720
somebody please introduce yourself hi

610
00:27:23,269 --> 00:27:21,900
this is Carl with a k and it says press

611
00:27:26,269 --> 00:27:23,279
on your badge so what's that all about

612
00:27:27,950 --> 00:27:26,279
uh I am a quasi official unofficial

613
00:27:29,269 --> 00:27:27,960
photographer for the convention so I've

614
00:27:31,010 --> 00:27:29,279
noticed you sitting in the first row

615
00:27:32,510 --> 00:27:31,020
taking pictures with very good

616
00:27:35,630 --> 00:27:32,520
photographic equipment of all the

617
00:27:38,870 --> 00:27:35,640
speakers and I do recall I have seen

618
00:27:41,269 --> 00:27:38,880
your name on a lot of the Wikipedia

619
00:27:43,789 --> 00:27:41,279
photos for these people yes

620
00:27:45,649 --> 00:27:43,799
uh that's why I get to sit in the front

621
00:27:47,510 --> 00:27:45,659
row I get all the good pictures and then

622
00:27:49,310 --> 00:27:47,520
Susan

623
00:27:51,710 --> 00:27:49,320
later on when they write articles

624
00:27:53,409 --> 00:27:51,720
they'll say hey did you get a photo of

625
00:27:56,090 --> 00:27:53,419
this speaker

626
00:27:57,310 --> 00:27:56,100
and I'll say I got a photo of all the

627
00:28:00,110 --> 00:27:57,320
speakers

628
00:28:01,730 --> 00:28:00,120
and they're all very high quality and in

629
00:28:04,190 --> 00:28:01,740
fact I think the one that's on my

630
00:28:06,169 --> 00:28:04,200
Facebook page is one you took when I was

631
00:28:08,510 --> 00:28:06,179
doing a Sunday papers I believe so yeah

632
00:28:11,450 --> 00:28:08,520
three or four years ago you've leaning

633
00:28:14,269 --> 00:28:11,460
so casually against selector trying to

634
00:28:16,610 --> 00:28:14,279
look like I was not nervous at all not

635
00:28:18,409 --> 00:28:16,620
only do my photos get used for Wikipedia

636
00:28:21,890 --> 00:28:18,419
articles they get used for skeptical

637
00:28:23,750 --> 00:28:21,900
Inquirer articles and my photo of Joe

638
00:28:26,390 --> 00:28:23,760
usinski got used for the Japanese

639
00:28:29,450 --> 00:28:26,400
edition of his book did they point that

640
00:28:31,310 --> 00:28:29,460
out that it was your photo yes well they

641
00:28:33,710 --> 00:28:31,320
they asked my permission I granted

642
00:28:35,810 --> 00:28:33,720
permission and they I didn't ask for

643
00:28:37,789 --> 00:28:35,820
money I just said give me a couple

644
00:28:39,409 --> 00:28:37,799
copies of the book and they got like

645
00:28:41,390 --> 00:28:39,419
five copies of the book

646
00:28:43,490 --> 00:28:41,400
so what got you involved in all of this

647
00:28:45,710 --> 00:28:43,500
every conference I've been to which is

648
00:28:47,510 --> 00:28:45,720
this is my fourth one you've been there

649
00:28:49,190 --> 00:28:47,520
and I know you were involved way before

650
00:28:51,590 --> 00:28:49,200
me so what got you involved in this

651
00:28:53,330 --> 00:28:51,600
whole skeptical move well to try not go

652
00:28:54,769 --> 00:28:53,340
too long the story and what seems

653
00:28:58,070 --> 00:28:54,779
interesting to me but probably not so

654
00:29:02,750 --> 00:28:58,080
much to everyone else uh way back

655
00:29:06,110 --> 00:29:02,760
two thousand eight ish for years I had

656
00:29:08,510 --> 00:29:06,120
been using the web to find scientific

657
00:29:10,210 --> 00:29:08,520
information and other technical

658
00:29:13,130 --> 00:29:10,220
information and

659
00:29:17,630 --> 00:29:13,140
my friend Scott

660
00:29:19,850 --> 00:29:17,640
used to have a Blog called polite defect

661
00:29:22,549 --> 00:29:19,860
and one of the things he did on this

662
00:29:24,830 --> 00:29:22,559
website was he wrote medical reviews of

663
00:29:26,630 --> 00:29:24,840
TV shows and comic books and stuff like

664
00:29:30,889 --> 00:29:26,640
that he would grade the medicine in it

665
00:29:34,010 --> 00:29:30,899
and he linked to some other sites one

666
00:29:37,250 --> 00:29:34,020
which was respectful insolence from uh

667
00:29:39,169 --> 00:29:37,260
orac I guess it's David Gorski everyone

668
00:29:42,169 --> 00:29:39,179
knows that I'm pretty sure now yeah so

669
00:29:44,029 --> 00:29:42,179
it's not a secret anymore and from David

670
00:29:45,710 --> 00:29:44,039
gorski's respectful insolence I found

671
00:29:48,409 --> 00:29:45,720
neurologica and science-based medicine

672
00:29:51,110 --> 00:29:48,419
and then the James Randy's

673
00:29:55,130 --> 00:29:51,120
site and everything quickly became a

674
00:29:57,289 --> 00:29:55,140
James Randy fan and one year after Tam

675
00:29:58,430 --> 00:29:57,299
six had the amazing meeting six had

676
00:30:00,470 --> 00:29:58,440
happened

677
00:30:01,610 --> 00:30:00,480
my friend Scott and I started talking so

678
00:30:03,289 --> 00:30:01,620
you know

679
00:30:05,810 --> 00:30:03,299
Randy just he went through that cancer

680
00:30:07,970 --> 00:30:05,820
thing real recently if we want to ever

681
00:30:10,310 --> 00:30:07,980
see him in person we need to go to the

682
00:30:13,370 --> 00:30:10,320
amazing meeting next year because he may

683
00:30:15,590 --> 00:30:13,380
not be around much longer and so he and

684
00:30:18,590 --> 00:30:15,600
I the next year went to the amazing

685
00:30:22,190 --> 00:30:18,600
meeting seven but both of us are

686
00:30:25,789 --> 00:30:22,200
naturally like introverted people so we

687
00:30:28,909 --> 00:30:25,799
stuck together the whole time and pretty

688
00:30:31,190 --> 00:30:28,919
much did you get kids to talk to Randy

689
00:30:33,049 --> 00:30:31,200
I I would I was not brave enough to talk

690
00:30:34,970 --> 00:30:33,059
to Brady that year

691
00:30:35,870 --> 00:30:34,980
and but like we we didn't do anything

692
00:30:37,669 --> 00:30:35,880
but hang around with each other

693
00:30:39,769 --> 00:30:37,679
basically the whole time

694
00:30:41,510 --> 00:30:39,779
and we went again the next year and kind

695
00:30:43,549 --> 00:30:41,520
of did the same thing

696
00:30:45,230 --> 00:30:43,559
but the following year

697
00:30:47,269 --> 00:30:45,240
he wasn't able to go

698
00:30:49,610 --> 00:30:47,279
to your friend my friend Scott was not

699
00:30:51,889 --> 00:30:49,620
able to attend and so I had to make the

700
00:30:54,529 --> 00:30:51,899
decision whether to go all by myself

701
00:30:57,230 --> 00:30:54,539
which is something I generally don't do

702
00:30:59,029 --> 00:30:57,240
or not go and I couldn't not go and so I

703
00:31:01,909 --> 00:30:59,039
just overcame my anxiety and went by

704
00:31:03,710 --> 00:31:01,919
myself and got started meeting people

705
00:31:06,409 --> 00:31:03,720
because I was just completely on my own

706
00:31:08,450 --> 00:31:06,419
and I yeah I hear that's one of the good

707
00:31:10,310 --> 00:31:08,460
things about the conference for a lot of

708
00:31:12,230 --> 00:31:10,320
people that they do what they normally

709
00:31:14,570 --> 00:31:12,240
wouldn't have done is to meet other

710
00:31:16,610 --> 00:31:14,580
people and get more involved and it

711
00:31:18,590 --> 00:31:16,620
helped if you can get into the orbit of

712
00:31:20,269 --> 00:31:18,600
Susan Kirby but if you will meet all

713
00:31:22,250 --> 00:31:20,279
sorts of people who are very friendly

714
00:31:25,130 --> 00:31:22,260
gravitational field I'm not coming on

715
00:31:28,909 --> 00:31:25,140
her weight yeah she's got she's got a

716
00:31:31,610 --> 00:31:28,919
skeptical gravitas yeah and she knows

717
00:31:33,110 --> 00:31:31,620
everyone and everyone knows her so once

718
00:31:34,370 --> 00:31:33,120
Susan is your friend you're gonna get a

719
00:31:36,110 --> 00:31:34,380
whole bunch of other friends and did you

720
00:31:38,210 --> 00:31:36,120
get to meet Randy I did get to meet

721
00:31:40,730 --> 00:31:38,220
Randy several times over the next few

722
00:31:43,610 --> 00:31:40,740
years because I mean he's gone now

723
00:31:46,730 --> 00:31:43,620
unfortunately but you know he was around

724
00:31:50,090 --> 00:31:46,740
for cam seven Tam eight tab nine ten

725
00:31:53,269 --> 00:31:50,100
eleven twelve thirteen and then zycon

726
00:31:55,130 --> 00:31:53,279
2016 27 and so you eventually got what

727
00:31:57,169 --> 00:31:55,140
you wanted out of it the first time you

728
00:31:59,870 --> 00:31:57,179
came and plus the skeptical movement got

729
00:32:01,909 --> 00:31:59,880
you as a great resource yes okay very

730
00:32:03,769 --> 00:32:01,919
good and we're both better for it

731
00:32:06,590 --> 00:32:03,779
so by the way I don't know if you have

732
00:32:08,810 --> 00:32:06,600
ever been on the skeptic zone right no

733
00:32:12,889 --> 00:32:08,820
but but I think you were on a different

734
00:32:15,110 --> 00:32:12,899
podcast I was on episode 402 of the

735
00:32:16,010 --> 00:32:15,120
Skeptics Guide to the universe how did

736
00:32:17,210 --> 00:32:16,020
that happen

737
00:32:20,630 --> 00:32:17,220
well

738
00:32:23,930 --> 00:32:20,640
at the amazing meeting they the SGU

739
00:32:25,860 --> 00:32:23,940
would often have this dinner for friends

740
00:32:26,990 --> 00:32:25,870
of the SGU and

741
00:32:28,730 --> 00:32:27,000
[Music]

742
00:32:29,690 --> 00:32:28,740
uh like at the end of the toward the end

743
00:32:31,190 --> 00:32:29,700
of the night

744
00:32:33,289 --> 00:32:31,200
they would hold an auction like two

745
00:32:35,630 --> 00:32:33,299
auctions one with a guest appearance on

746
00:32:37,549 --> 00:32:35,640
science or fiction and the other was for

747
00:32:38,750 --> 00:32:37,559
a guest appearance as a guest Rogue for

748
00:32:41,330 --> 00:32:38,760
the whole episode

749
00:32:43,130 --> 00:32:41,340
and I won that auction how much was that

750
00:32:45,169 --> 00:32:43,140
do you want to say I don't I don't think

751
00:32:48,769 --> 00:32:45,179
they want me to fail but my winning bid

752
00:32:50,450 --> 00:32:48,779
was all right so let me ask instead

753
00:32:53,149 --> 00:32:50,460
was the experience as good as you

754
00:32:55,250 --> 00:32:53,159
thought it might be it was I really

755
00:32:57,049 --> 00:32:55,260
enjoyed it thank you Carl for your time

756
00:32:59,750 --> 00:32:57,059
thank you

757
00:33:02,149 --> 00:32:59,760
just finished the last official event of

758
00:33:04,850 --> 00:33:02,159
Saturday at scicon and I ran into a

759
00:33:06,889 --> 00:33:04,860
fellow skeptical Inquirer author tell us

760
00:33:09,169 --> 00:33:06,899
a little bit about you hi my name is JD

761
00:33:11,450 --> 00:33:09,179
sword I write the co-write the morning

762
00:33:13,789 --> 00:33:11,460
heresy they call him the devil in the

763
00:33:15,889 --> 00:33:13,799
details and hosts the podcast of the

764
00:33:17,450 --> 00:33:15,899
same name devil in the details

765
00:33:19,789 --> 00:33:17,460
and I've seen your articles in the

766
00:33:22,370 --> 00:33:19,799
skeptical Inquirer online yes right and

767
00:33:23,870 --> 00:33:22,380
you you have a topic that's sort of uh

768
00:33:27,710 --> 00:33:23,880
unique what do you like to write about

769
00:33:30,409 --> 00:33:27,720
uh mostly cases of exorcism demonic

770
00:33:34,190 --> 00:33:30,419
possession cases about some haunted

771
00:33:35,810 --> 00:33:34,200
houses and stuff q and on material

772
00:33:38,210 --> 00:33:35,820
how'd you get interested in all of that

773
00:33:41,570 --> 00:33:38,220
stuff well for me it really started with

774
00:33:44,149 --> 00:33:41,580
pizzagate in 2016. when that first

775
00:33:45,529 --> 00:33:44,159
happened I immediately Drew parallels

776
00:33:48,649 --> 00:33:45,539
between that and the satanic panic at

777
00:33:50,389 --> 00:33:48,659
the 80s and I was like you know this is

778
00:33:53,090 --> 00:33:50,399
something that we need to look out for

779
00:33:54,769 --> 00:33:53,100
so that partially inspired me to get

780
00:33:56,210 --> 00:33:54,779
more involved with

781
00:33:58,669 --> 00:33:56,220
reaching out to people from the center

782
00:34:01,549 --> 00:33:58,679
for inquiry and from there it just kind

783
00:34:03,590 --> 00:34:01,559
of snowballed to getting a calm and

784
00:34:05,149 --> 00:34:03,600
being an active writer yeah so that was

785
00:34:06,769 --> 00:34:05,159
the first thing I saw that that your

786
00:34:08,930 --> 00:34:06,779
article started popping up on skeptical

787
00:34:10,909 --> 00:34:08,940
and Fire online and then recently I saw

788
00:34:12,710 --> 00:34:10,919
your name on the morning heresy how did

789
00:34:14,869 --> 00:34:12,720
that part happen so I don't remember

790
00:34:17,629 --> 00:34:14,879
exactly how

791
00:34:19,250 --> 00:34:17,639
that started by the way for people who

792
00:34:21,050 --> 00:34:19,260
don't know the morning heresy I should

793
00:34:23,389 --> 00:34:21,060
say is will you describe it what is it

794
00:34:25,909 --> 00:34:23,399
uh well it's the newsletter it's kind of

795
00:34:28,430 --> 00:34:25,919
a Roundup of any kind of news stories

796
00:34:31,190 --> 00:34:28,440
that the skeptic Community might might

797
00:34:33,710 --> 00:34:31,200
be interested in my co-co-write it with

798
00:34:36,589 --> 00:34:33,720
the new Communications guy Jeff

799
00:34:39,889 --> 00:34:36,599
Dellinger 4th of August still involved

800
00:34:42,829 --> 00:34:39,899
in it I had reached out to

801
00:34:44,690 --> 00:34:42,839
to him and Barry and you know asked is

802
00:34:47,149 --> 00:34:44,700
there anything else that I can do and

803
00:34:49,070 --> 00:34:47,159
get involved in and honestly I don't

804
00:34:51,889 --> 00:34:49,080
really remember how it how the topic

805
00:34:54,250 --> 00:34:51,899
came up but you you know what I remember

806
00:34:56,270 --> 00:34:54,260
now because it's when he got the new job

807
00:34:58,790 --> 00:34:56,280
when Paul got the new job with free

808
00:35:01,070 --> 00:34:58,800
inquiry I had messaged Barry and I said

809
00:35:02,930 --> 00:35:01,080
do you know what the future of that's

810
00:35:06,230 --> 00:35:02,940
going to be are you looking for somebody

811
00:35:08,210 --> 00:35:06,240
to contribute in any way and at the time

812
00:35:10,430 --> 00:35:08,220
he was like you know I don't really know

813
00:35:12,109 --> 00:35:10,440
what it's going to be and I think Paul

814
00:35:14,870 --> 00:35:12,119
had reached out to me

815
00:35:16,250 --> 00:35:14,880
and was like you know I don't know what

816
00:35:18,950 --> 00:35:16,260
the future is necessarily going to be

817
00:35:21,349 --> 00:35:18,960
but I'd be very interested if you'd be

818
00:35:22,190 --> 00:35:21,359
willing to to do some work for it so you

819
00:35:24,589 --> 00:35:22,200
know let's

820
00:35:26,810 --> 00:35:24,599
give it a give it a couple couple weeks

821
00:35:29,510 --> 00:35:26,820
we'll try it out and see how it goes and

822
00:35:31,430 --> 00:35:29,520
apparently he he liked liked what I had

823
00:35:34,250 --> 00:35:31,440
to say I am always impressed by that

824
00:35:35,569 --> 00:35:34,260
that email when it comes because how did

825
00:35:37,609 --> 00:35:35,579
these people have the time to research

826
00:35:39,770 --> 00:35:37,619
all of this and do all of this in one

827
00:35:44,270 --> 00:35:39,780
day and then and yours have been the

828
00:35:47,569 --> 00:35:44,280
same way he has a very extensive list of

829
00:35:49,550 --> 00:35:47,579
key keyword searches and sources to

830
00:35:52,910 --> 00:35:49,560
peruse through he taught me all the kind

831
00:35:54,829 --> 00:35:52,920
of tricks and some some days it's it's

832
00:35:56,450 --> 00:35:54,839
less busy than others

833
00:35:58,069 --> 00:35:56,460
um and then other days you get absolute

834
00:36:00,290 --> 00:35:58,079
gold mines of you know I can't believe

835
00:36:02,690 --> 00:36:00,300
that I'm writing about this this is so

836
00:36:04,609 --> 00:36:02,700
you know it's a ridiculous story so

837
00:36:07,069 --> 00:36:04,619
let's talk about taikon so this is your

838
00:36:09,109 --> 00:36:07,079
first one I understand it yeah how'd you

839
00:36:10,490 --> 00:36:09,119
decide to come well knowing that it was

840
00:36:11,630 --> 00:36:10,500
the first one they've had since the

841
00:36:13,370 --> 00:36:11,640
pandemic

842
00:36:14,870 --> 00:36:13,380
you know everyone said this is going to

843
00:36:17,270 --> 00:36:14,880
be a big deal it's going to be the big

844
00:36:21,050 --> 00:36:17,280
one and knowing who the guest speakers

845
00:36:22,430 --> 00:36:21,060
were going to be my friend Kenny Biddle

846
00:36:24,589 --> 00:36:22,440
um Susan kerbrick was going to be there

847
00:36:26,930 --> 00:36:24,599
and then of course Penn and Teller were

848
00:36:31,069 --> 00:36:26,940
going to be there and you know if it

849
00:36:35,210 --> 00:36:31,079
wasn't for them and for for James Randy

850
00:36:37,670 --> 00:36:35,220
I probably wouldn't be a skeptic so I

851
00:36:39,290 --> 00:36:37,680
really wanted to make a point to come to

852
00:36:42,170 --> 00:36:39,300
meet you know new people such as

853
00:36:45,410 --> 00:36:42,180
yourself do what I could to to help out

854
00:36:48,770 --> 00:36:45,420
and contribute to the convention and you

855
00:36:50,870 --> 00:36:48,780
know just give give my thanks to the

856
00:36:52,810 --> 00:36:50,880
people that that helped helped me get

857
00:36:56,150 --> 00:36:52,820
here

858
00:36:58,790 --> 00:36:56,160
you know Kenny Kenny's been a fantastic

859
00:37:00,170 --> 00:36:58,800
mentor and he did a great talk today it

860
00:37:01,970 --> 00:37:00,180
was his first time on the main stage

861
00:37:03,109 --> 00:37:01,980
although he's done workshops previous

862
00:37:05,150 --> 00:37:03,119
years

863
00:37:06,530 --> 00:37:05,160
yeah it was yeah it was really good all

864
00:37:09,600 --> 00:37:06,540
right well thank you very much for your

865
00:37:09,610 --> 00:37:21,829
[Music]

866
00:37:31,310 --> 00:37:23,410
foreign

867
00:37:34,430 --> 00:37:31,320
[Music]

868
00:37:36,710 --> 00:37:34,440
from the data skeptic podcast if you're

869
00:37:39,170 --> 00:37:36,720
curious about the way data is changing

870
00:37:41,690 --> 00:37:39,180
our world topics like Ai and all this

871
00:37:43,550 --> 00:37:41,700
craziness with Facebook and Bots and the

872
00:37:45,710 --> 00:37:43,560
Twitter storm and how the algorithms

873
00:37:47,450 --> 00:37:45,720
that underline that work and you don't

874
00:37:49,010 --> 00:37:47,460
want a technical Deep dive you want it

875
00:37:50,630 --> 00:37:49,020
you know in the vernacular in a way that

876
00:37:52,550 --> 00:37:50,640
people can understand check us out at

877
00:37:54,589 --> 00:37:52,560
data skeptic that's what we try and do I

878
00:37:56,270 --> 00:37:54,599
interview Advanced Professionals in the

879
00:37:58,250 --> 00:37:56,280
field who do this sort of research and

880
00:37:59,690 --> 00:37:58,260
then I get into interesting projects as

881
00:38:01,310 --> 00:37:59,700
well

882
00:38:03,410 --> 00:38:01,320
[Music]

883
00:38:04,480 --> 00:38:03,420
we're a weekly show and you can find us

884
00:38:21,720 --> 00:38:04,490
today to skeptic.com

885
00:38:21,730 --> 00:38:26,150
[Music]

886
00:38:30,349 --> 00:38:28,370
now it's time once again to dip into the

887
00:38:32,450 --> 00:38:30,359
digital archives from around the world

888
00:38:34,190 --> 00:38:32,460
and as I mentioned at the top of the

889
00:38:36,230 --> 00:38:34,200
show the sad news of the death of

890
00:38:37,730 --> 00:38:36,240
Kendrick Frazier

891
00:38:40,250 --> 00:38:37,740
had the pleasure of meeting in

892
00:38:41,030 --> 00:38:40,260
Albuquerque New Mexico a dinner at his

893
00:38:44,450 --> 00:38:41,040
house

894
00:38:47,450 --> 00:38:44,460
it was wonderful in the uh in the

895
00:38:50,810 --> 00:38:47,460
company of Ben Radford and Ken Spartan

896
00:38:54,589 --> 00:38:50,820
Ruth they lived up on the um on a

897
00:38:57,290 --> 00:38:54,599
hillside looking uh over the City of

898
00:39:00,589 --> 00:38:57,300
Albuquerque and it was just a beautiful

899
00:39:03,910 --> 00:39:00,599
beautiful Vista happy memories

900
00:39:08,089 --> 00:39:03,920
if we turn to Wikipedia Kendrick Frazier

901
00:39:10,370 --> 00:39:08,099
born March 1942 was a science writer and

902
00:39:13,790 --> 00:39:10,380
long time editor of the skeptical

903
00:39:16,910 --> 00:39:13,800
Inquirer magazine he was also a former

904
00:39:19,490 --> 00:39:16,920
editor of Science News author or editor

905
00:39:21,650 --> 00:39:19,500
of 10 books a fellow of the American

906
00:39:23,930 --> 00:39:21,660
Association for the advancement of

907
00:39:25,910 --> 00:39:23,940
science he was a fellow and a member of

908
00:39:29,270 --> 00:39:25,920
the executive Council of the committee

909
00:39:30,890 --> 00:39:29,280
for skeptical inquiry CSI an

910
00:39:33,589 --> 00:39:30,900
international organization which

911
00:39:35,569 --> 00:39:33,599
promotes skeptical inquiry he has

912
00:39:37,970 --> 00:39:35,579
written extensively about a variety of

913
00:39:40,490 --> 00:39:37,980
science topics including astronomy space

914
00:39:43,010 --> 00:39:40,500
exploration the Earth and planetary

915
00:39:45,530 --> 00:39:43,020
Sciences archeology technology the

916
00:39:47,329 --> 00:39:45,540
history and philosophy of science public

917
00:39:50,690 --> 00:39:47,339
issues of Science and the Critical

918
00:39:53,450 --> 00:39:50,700
examination of pseudoscience and fringe

919
00:39:58,430 --> 00:39:53,460
science and indeed right here on the

920
00:40:02,930 --> 00:39:58,440
Wiki page is an example of Ken speaking

921
00:40:05,210 --> 00:40:02,940
for himself recorded in January 2015 so

922
00:40:08,569 --> 00:40:05,220
I'll play that right now

923
00:40:11,630 --> 00:40:08,579
I'm Ken Frazier and I'm editor of the

924
00:40:14,390 --> 00:40:11,640
skeptical Inquirer magazine uh I got

925
00:40:16,670 --> 00:40:14,400
into skepticism from the science side of

926
00:40:19,670 --> 00:40:16,680
things but I was editor of Science News

927
00:40:21,470 --> 00:40:19,680
Magazine in Washington before that so I

928
00:40:25,010 --> 00:40:21,480
bring a science writer's point of view

929
00:40:27,349 --> 00:40:25,020
to skepticism and always have

930
00:40:30,230 --> 00:40:27,359
um I've been editor of Si for so long

931
00:40:33,050 --> 00:40:30,240
that I'm now almost the Grand Old Man of

932
00:40:34,730 --> 00:40:33,060
the skeptical movement I guess but it's

933
00:40:37,910 --> 00:40:34,740
ironic because I still think of myself

934
00:40:43,450 --> 00:40:37,920
as a young person I guess I'm not really

935
00:40:45,650 --> 00:40:43,460
anymore I have very much appreciated and

936
00:40:49,190 --> 00:40:45,660
enjoyed being editor of the skeptical

937
00:40:50,870 --> 00:40:49,200
Inquirer and being a part and a

938
00:40:54,050 --> 00:40:50,880
contributor to the skeptical movement

939
00:40:56,089 --> 00:40:54,060
for a good long time now I'm on the

940
00:40:57,650 --> 00:40:56,099
executive Council of the committee for

941
00:41:01,310 --> 00:40:57,660
skeptical inquiry

942
00:41:03,890 --> 00:41:01,320
and uh also on the board of the center

943
00:41:06,050 --> 00:41:03,900
for inquiry which is our overall

944
00:41:09,290 --> 00:41:06,060
umbrella organization all in Amherst New

945
00:41:11,870 --> 00:41:09,300
York uh fortunately I work out of

946
00:41:13,870 --> 00:41:11,880
Albuquerque New Mexico so I'm in uh not

947
00:41:17,030 --> 00:41:13,880
at the headquarters location

948
00:41:20,089 --> 00:41:17,040
and uh one of the fun things about my

949
00:41:24,109 --> 00:41:20,099
job is I get to interact with authors

950
00:41:26,210 --> 00:41:24,119
and Skeptics from all over the world

951
00:41:28,310 --> 00:41:26,220
um who contribute to the skeptical

952
00:41:29,930 --> 00:41:28,320
movement through a skeptical Inquirer

953
00:41:34,490 --> 00:41:29,940
and other forums

954
00:41:37,970 --> 00:41:34,500
and uh all the material comes in through

955
00:41:39,710 --> 00:41:37,980
me and then I make decisions of what

956
00:41:43,910 --> 00:41:39,720
we're going to publish

957
00:41:47,450 --> 00:41:43,920
and uh then it goes to other editors but

958
00:41:49,430 --> 00:41:47,460
it's a joy uh dealing with academics

959
00:41:51,410 --> 00:41:49,440
Scholars and investigators who are

960
00:41:54,050 --> 00:41:51,420
skeptical from all over the world it's

961
00:41:56,750 --> 00:41:54,060
really quite an interesting and I think

962
00:41:59,630 --> 00:41:56,760
very valuable movement and I'm pleased

963
00:42:01,970 --> 00:41:59,640
to be a part of it

964
00:42:04,970 --> 00:42:01,980
yes a great loss to the skeptical

965
00:42:08,390 --> 00:42:04,980
movement a very very nice man to meet

966
00:42:10,970 --> 00:42:08,400
and deal with but let's look back into

967
00:42:13,310 --> 00:42:10,980
history and see what some of the news

968
00:42:15,980 --> 00:42:13,320
archives newspaper archives

969
00:42:21,790 --> 00:42:15,990
have written about Kendrick Frazier

970
00:42:27,050 --> 00:42:24,349
and first of all we find ourselves in

971
00:42:30,010 --> 00:42:27,060
the year 1984 in the pages of the

972
00:42:34,010 --> 00:42:30,020
Kenosha Wisconsin news

973
00:42:36,710 --> 00:42:34,020
November the 25th 1984. skeptical

974
00:42:39,950 --> 00:42:36,720
Inquirer magazine fights claims made by

975
00:42:43,910 --> 00:42:39,960
national tabloids by Charles hillinger

976
00:42:46,670 --> 00:42:43,920
copyright 1984 Los Angeles Times so this

977
00:42:48,829 --> 00:42:46,680
is a a syndicated item because I've also

978
00:42:51,530 --> 00:42:48,839
discovered the same report in several

979
00:42:53,930 --> 00:42:51,540
other newspapers around the same time

980
00:42:56,270 --> 00:42:53,940
Albuquerque New Mexico

981
00:42:59,470 --> 00:42:56,280
there are strong grounds to believe

982
00:43:03,290 --> 00:42:59,480
there is no such thing as a psychic

983
00:43:05,630 --> 00:43:03,300
insisted Kendrick Frazier 40 editor of

984
00:43:08,210 --> 00:43:05,640
skeptical Inquirer accordingly that

985
00:43:10,910 --> 00:43:08,220
evaluates fringe science claims from a

986
00:43:12,410 --> 00:43:10,920
responsible scientific point of view of

987
00:43:15,170 --> 00:43:12,420
course there are many who call

988
00:43:18,230 --> 00:43:15,180
themselves psychic but neither I nor my

989
00:43:19,849 --> 00:43:18,240
colleagues know of anyone who when

990
00:43:21,890 --> 00:43:19,859
subjected to good scientific

991
00:43:24,230 --> 00:43:21,900
observations under control conditions

992
00:43:27,230 --> 00:43:24,240
has been able to demonstrate paranormal

993
00:43:29,390 --> 00:43:27,240
abilities said Frasier author of two

994
00:43:32,210 --> 00:43:29,400
science books and a full-time science

995
00:43:34,309 --> 00:43:32,220
writer for Scandia National Lab in

996
00:43:37,309 --> 00:43:34,319
Albuquerque who edits the journal from

997
00:43:40,490 --> 00:43:37,319
his home the skeptical Inquirer has been

998
00:43:42,530 --> 00:43:40,500
published since 1976 by the Buffalo New

999
00:43:44,270 --> 00:43:42,540
york-based committee for the scientific

1000
00:43:47,450 --> 00:43:44,280
investigations of claims of the

1001
00:43:50,690 --> 00:43:47,460
Paranormal whose stated purpose is quote

1002
00:43:53,270 --> 00:43:50,700
to combat the nonsense published by The

1003
00:43:55,130 --> 00:43:53,280
National Enquirer the globe the Starin

1004
00:43:58,190 --> 00:43:55,140
similar public stations in the

1005
00:44:01,190 --> 00:43:58,200
widespread paranormal craze that has

1006
00:44:04,130 --> 00:44:01,200
swept the country in recent years end

1007
00:44:06,950 --> 00:44:04,140
quote topics covered include perpetual

1008
00:44:09,670 --> 00:44:06,960
motion the occult Bigfoot Evolution

1009
00:44:13,210 --> 00:44:09,680
versus creationism ESP

1010
00:44:16,309 --> 00:44:13,220
contras dowsing TV pseudo documentaries

1011
00:44:19,670 --> 00:44:16,319
Transcendental Meditation Clairvoyance

1012
00:44:21,970 --> 00:44:19,680
astrology Telekinesis the use of mental

1013
00:44:25,790 --> 00:44:21,980
power to make objects move

1014
00:44:28,430 --> 00:44:25,800
biorhythms UFOs telepathy the Bermuda

1015
00:44:30,970 --> 00:44:28,440
Triangle and other triangles Pyramid

1016
00:44:35,030 --> 00:44:30,980
Power Faith healing mind reading

1017
00:44:37,910 --> 00:44:35,040
levitation palmistry poltergeists and

1018
00:44:40,790 --> 00:44:37,920
automatic writing the committee for the

1019
00:44:43,490 --> 00:44:40,800
skeptical Inquirer grew out of a

1020
00:44:46,970 --> 00:44:43,500
statement disavowing astrology published

1021
00:44:49,069 --> 00:44:46,980
in 1975 by Paul Kurtz professor of

1022
00:44:52,910 --> 00:44:49,079
philosophy at the University of New York

1023
00:44:55,910 --> 00:44:52,920
State Buffalo and 191 other leading

1024
00:44:58,190 --> 00:44:55,920
scientists including 19 Nobel Prize

1025
00:45:01,609 --> 00:44:58,200
winners Frasier said

1026
00:45:04,630 --> 00:45:01,619
the panel's 100 members include many of

1027
00:45:07,550 --> 00:45:04,640
America's most distinguished scientists

1028
00:45:11,809 --> 00:45:07,560
psychologists philosophers investigative

1029
00:45:15,290 --> 00:45:11,819
journalists and magicians among them are

1030
00:45:17,089 --> 00:45:15,300
astronomers Carl Sagan George Abell of

1031
00:45:20,870 --> 00:45:17,099
the University of California at Los

1032
00:45:23,510 --> 00:45:20,880
Angeles and Edwin C cropp director of

1033
00:45:25,550 --> 00:45:23,520
the Griffith Park Observatory Isaac

1034
00:45:29,109 --> 00:45:25,560
Asimov author and chemist Harvard

1035
00:45:31,849 --> 00:45:29,119
University zoologist Stephen J Gould

1036
00:45:35,329 --> 00:45:31,859
Harvard psychologist B.F Skinner

1037
00:45:38,150 --> 00:45:35,339
Anthropologist Laurie Godfrey Scientific

1038
00:45:39,410 --> 00:45:38,160
American columnist Martin Gardner and

1039
00:45:44,270 --> 00:45:39,420
magician

1040
00:45:46,490 --> 00:45:44,280
James Randy the skeptical Inquirer is a

1041
00:45:49,190 --> 00:45:46,500
labor of love no one was paid for

1042
00:45:50,329 --> 00:45:49,200
writing the Articles said Frasier who

1043
00:45:53,150 --> 00:45:50,339
worked for the United Press

1044
00:45:55,490 --> 00:45:53,160
International the National Academy of

1045
00:45:58,730 --> 00:45:55,500
Science newsletter and Science News

1046
00:46:01,550 --> 00:45:58,740
Magazine before becoming editor of the

1047
00:46:03,230 --> 00:46:01,560
publication he emphasized that everyone

1048
00:46:05,630 --> 00:46:03,240
is involved out of a sense of

1049
00:46:07,609 --> 00:46:05,640
intellectual integrity and having great

1050
00:46:10,849 --> 00:46:07,619
faith in the Public's ability to make

1051
00:46:13,609 --> 00:46:10,859
the right decisions if they have correct

1052
00:46:15,770 --> 00:46:13,619
information available every issue of the

1053
00:46:18,050 --> 00:46:15,780
skeptical Inquirer contains articles

1054
00:46:21,349 --> 00:46:18,060
challenging Publications and individuals

1055
00:46:22,569 --> 00:46:21,359
in the Paranormal field a recent issue

1056
00:46:26,290 --> 00:46:22,579
quoted a

1057
00:46:28,790 --> 00:46:26,300
screaming Banner headline in the globe

1058
00:46:31,910 --> 00:46:28,800
Bermuda Triangle gobbling up ships and

1059
00:46:34,430 --> 00:46:31,920
planes again an investigation by the

1060
00:46:36,950 --> 00:46:34,440
Journal was not able to verify a single

1061
00:46:39,050 --> 00:46:36,960
plane reported by the globe to have

1062
00:46:41,870 --> 00:46:39,060
vanished in that area off the Florida

1063
00:46:43,849 --> 00:46:41,880
coast during the two-year period a story

1064
00:46:46,490 --> 00:46:43,859
in the skeptical inquire written by

1065
00:46:49,670 --> 00:46:46,500
Eugene Emery science writer for the

1066
00:46:53,210 --> 00:46:49,680
Providence Journal commented on a quote

1067
00:46:56,390 --> 00:46:53,220
PM Magazine and quote TV program a few

1068
00:46:59,329 --> 00:46:56,400
months ago that aired a film sequence of

1069
00:47:03,190 --> 00:46:59,339
a cylindrical object identified as a UFO

1070
00:47:06,530 --> 00:47:03,200
moving across the sky near Cumberland RI

1071
00:47:09,470 --> 00:47:06,540
this is no hoax the program's

1072
00:47:11,630 --> 00:47:09,480
commentator insisted however Emery

1073
00:47:14,089 --> 00:47:11,640
quoted the chief photographer of the

1074
00:47:17,990 --> 00:47:14,099
Museum of Science in Boston is saying

1075
00:47:20,569 --> 00:47:18,000
that hoax is written all over it and

1076
00:47:23,210 --> 00:47:20,579
identified the object as a small tube

1077
00:47:25,910 --> 00:47:23,220
suspended on a thin horizontal wire

1078
00:47:29,870 --> 00:47:25,920
pulled by a thread across the area

1079
00:47:33,170 --> 00:47:29,880
filmed as for psychics Frasier said that

1080
00:47:35,569 --> 00:47:33,180
one will come along once in a while and

1081
00:47:38,930 --> 00:47:35,579
make a lucky hit in helping police find

1082
00:47:42,470 --> 00:47:38,940
a body and get a Big Splash in the news

1083
00:47:45,230 --> 00:47:42,480
media and people are led to believe the

1084
00:47:47,569 --> 00:47:45,240
person is successful all the time which

1085
00:47:49,550 --> 00:47:47,579
is far from the truth

1086
00:47:52,849 --> 00:47:49,560
and again that comes to us from the

1087
00:47:54,710 --> 00:47:52,859
Kenosha news from Wisconsin although it

1088
00:47:57,230 --> 00:47:54,720
was a syndicated piece from Los Angeles

1089
00:48:00,589 --> 00:47:57,240
and it was published on the 25th of

1090
00:48:03,109 --> 00:48:00,599
November 1984.

1091
00:48:06,130 --> 00:48:03,119
and our next entry takes place some

1092
00:48:10,069 --> 00:48:06,140
years earlier in 1976

1093
00:48:13,730 --> 00:48:10,079
1976 the 26th of July in the Benton

1094
00:48:17,030 --> 00:48:13,740
Courier Benton Arkansas

1095
00:48:19,430 --> 00:48:17,040
cultist claims challenged

1096
00:48:23,089 --> 00:48:19,440
by Don Oakley

1097
00:48:25,730 --> 00:48:23,099
one of the puzzles of our time is why in

1098
00:48:28,309 --> 00:48:25,740
an age when science has conquered many

1099
00:48:31,190 --> 00:48:28,319
major diseases has sent men to the moon

1100
00:48:34,190 --> 00:48:31,200
and instruments to the nearer planets

1101
00:48:37,190 --> 00:48:34,200
and has put the world into instantaneous

1102
00:48:38,930 --> 00:48:37,200
communication with itself we should be

1103
00:48:41,510 --> 00:48:38,940
witnessing a proliferation of

1104
00:48:44,750 --> 00:48:41,520
pseudoscientific Cults Fringe religious

1105
00:48:48,109 --> 00:48:44,760
groups pop psychology movements and

1106
00:48:50,210 --> 00:48:48,119
alike if all these are signs of a

1107
00:48:52,430 --> 00:48:50,220
society in search of answers to

1108
00:48:56,630 --> 00:48:52,440
questions which Orthodox science and

1109
00:48:59,329 --> 00:48:56,640
religion ignores or has no satisfactory

1110
00:49:02,329 --> 00:48:59,339
answers to then this has to be the most

1111
00:49:06,530 --> 00:49:02,339
Relentless generation in history

1112
00:49:09,770 --> 00:49:06,540
or perhaps the most gullible every age

1113
00:49:13,250 --> 00:49:09,780
has had its similar groups and movements

1114
00:49:15,349 --> 00:49:13,260
but the last decade has brought a flood

1115
00:49:18,410 --> 00:49:15,359
of interest in what is variously called

1116
00:49:20,750 --> 00:49:18,420
Fringe signs borderline signs

1117
00:49:23,930 --> 00:49:20,760
pseudoscience paranormal phenomena

1118
00:49:28,190 --> 00:49:23,940
occultism mysticism the Cults of

1119
00:49:31,970 --> 00:49:28,200
unreason the new irrationalism or the

1120
00:49:34,910 --> 00:49:31,980
new nonsense rights Kendrick Frazier in

1121
00:49:38,349 --> 00:49:34,920
science news ancient astronauts

1122
00:49:41,329 --> 00:49:38,359
astrology the Bermuda Triangle UFOs

1123
00:49:44,589 --> 00:49:41,339
psychokinesis psychic healing curling

1124
00:49:47,930 --> 00:49:44,599
photography Pyramid Power reincarnation

1125
00:49:51,109 --> 00:49:47,940
immortality astral projection lost

1126
00:49:52,790 --> 00:49:51,119
continents plant communication one has

1127
00:49:55,490 --> 00:49:52,800
to go only as far as the nearest

1128
00:49:58,309 --> 00:49:55,500
magazine stand to find Publications on

1129
00:50:02,809 --> 00:49:58,319
these and other subjects in abundant

1130
00:50:06,109 --> 00:50:02,819
quantities some 140 Americans are

1131
00:50:08,630 --> 00:50:06,119
involved in Fringe religious cults such

1132
00:50:10,670 --> 00:50:08,640
as spiritualism Hari Krishna and

1133
00:50:13,250 --> 00:50:10,680
Scientology according to the University

1134
00:50:15,710 --> 00:50:13,260
of Chicago Anthropologist Irving

1135
00:50:18,230 --> 00:50:15,720
zaretsky who recently completed a

1136
00:50:21,050 --> 00:50:18,240
10-year period as a principal observer

1137
00:50:24,410 --> 00:50:21,060
in many of these groups the number may

1138
00:50:26,750 --> 00:50:24,420
be much larger says zaretsky and it

1139
00:50:29,210 --> 00:50:26,760
includes a great many respectable middle

1140
00:50:31,430 --> 00:50:29,220
class and upper-class people who may

1141
00:50:33,950 --> 00:50:31,440
also belong to traditional religious

1142
00:50:36,230 --> 00:50:33,960
groups it is hard to get accurate

1143
00:50:38,990 --> 00:50:36,240
numbers because cult participation is

1144
00:50:42,349 --> 00:50:39,000
often an occasional One-Shot experience

1145
00:50:43,609 --> 00:50:42,359
rather than a continuing membership so

1146
00:50:47,089 --> 00:50:43,619
many people are turning to pop

1147
00:50:50,030 --> 00:50:47,099
psychologies in the 1970s says Dr

1148
00:50:52,849 --> 00:50:50,040
William Rickles chief of the clinical

1149
00:50:55,910 --> 00:50:52,859
and psychological laboratory at the

1150
00:51:00,470 --> 00:50:55,920
Veterans Administration in seppavola

1151
00:51:02,930 --> 00:51:00,480
California that I feel the pop

1152
00:51:06,470 --> 00:51:02,940
psychological movement is very much

1153
00:51:08,930 --> 00:51:06,480
taking the place of religion in what is

1154
00:51:11,390 --> 00:51:08,940
probably the most publicized example of

1155
00:51:15,170 --> 00:51:11,400
this phenomenon Earhart seminars

1156
00:51:16,329 --> 00:51:15,180
training EST has in the four years since

1157
00:51:20,630 --> 00:51:16,339
it began

1158
00:51:22,750 --> 00:51:20,640
processed 70 000 people at two hundred

1159
00:51:26,450 --> 00:51:22,760
and fifty dollars each similar

1160
00:51:28,130 --> 00:51:26,460
Consciousness industry vendors are doing

1161
00:51:30,890 --> 00:51:28,140
almost as well

1162
00:51:33,410 --> 00:51:30,900
the typical scientist's reaction to all

1163
00:51:35,870 --> 00:51:33,420
this is usually to throw up his hands in

1164
00:51:38,089 --> 00:51:35,880
disgust matter about the naive and

1165
00:51:40,430 --> 00:51:38,099
gullibility of the general public turn

1166
00:51:44,089 --> 00:51:40,440
back to his experiments and forget about

1167
00:51:46,609 --> 00:51:44,099
it says Frasier but now there is

1168
00:51:49,730 --> 00:51:46,619
something new on the scene at least in

1169
00:51:51,890 --> 00:51:49,740
the field of pseudoscience he reports a

1170
00:51:53,809 --> 00:51:51,900
group of Scholars scientists and

1171
00:51:58,190 --> 00:51:53,819
investigators determined to challenge

1172
00:52:01,010 --> 00:51:58,200
the claims of the cultists the formation

1173
00:52:03,049 --> 00:52:01,020
of a committee for the scientific

1174
00:52:06,410 --> 00:52:03,059
investigation of claims of the

1175
00:52:08,510 --> 00:52:06,420
Paranormal was announced last spring at

1176
00:52:12,309 --> 00:52:08,520
a meeting of the American humanist

1177
00:52:14,569 --> 00:52:12,319
Association in Buffalo New York perhaps

1178
00:52:18,230 --> 00:52:14,579
anti-scientific and pseudoscientific

1179
00:52:20,329 --> 00:52:18,240
irrationalism is a passing fashion says

1180
00:52:22,670 --> 00:52:20,339
the committee's co-chairman Paul Kurtz

1181
00:52:25,609 --> 00:52:22,680
professor of philosophy at the State

1182
00:52:28,910 --> 00:52:25,619
University of New York in Buffalo and

1183
00:52:32,270 --> 00:52:28,920
editor of the humanist yet one of the

1184
00:52:34,609 --> 00:52:32,280
best ways to deal with it is for the

1185
00:52:38,510 --> 00:52:34,619
scientific and educational Community to

1186
00:52:41,750 --> 00:52:38,520
respond in a responsible manner to this

1187
00:52:43,670 --> 00:52:41,760
alarming growth the committee intends to

1188
00:52:46,670 --> 00:52:43,680
function like a consumer information

1189
00:52:49,670 --> 00:52:46,680
group providing the public and the news

1190
00:52:54,049 --> 00:52:49,680
media with access to facts by which they

1191
00:52:56,870 --> 00:52:54,059
can judge the validity of unusual claims

1192
00:52:58,790 --> 00:52:56,880
and that comes to us from 1976 and that

1193
00:53:01,609 --> 00:52:58,800
is still the case to this very day

1194
00:53:04,790 --> 00:53:01,619
especially

1195
00:53:06,589 --> 00:53:04,800
with groups like um the committee for

1196
00:53:08,930 --> 00:53:06,599
skeptical inquiry and the Australian

1197
00:53:11,569 --> 00:53:08,940
Skeptics we are here to provide the news

1198
00:53:16,130 --> 00:53:11,579
media and the public with access to uh

1199
00:53:18,290 --> 00:53:16,140
to our reasoned way of thinking to the

1200
00:53:21,890 --> 00:53:18,300
facts of any particular case we happen

1201
00:53:23,930 --> 00:53:21,900
to know about uh we've always considered

1202
00:53:26,089 --> 00:53:23,940
ourselves to be a resource for the

1203
00:53:30,349 --> 00:53:26,099
public and the media

1204
00:53:33,730 --> 00:53:30,359
and finally from 1995 on the 28th of

1205
00:53:37,549 --> 00:53:33,740
August a very short piece in the

1206
00:53:40,010 --> 00:53:37,559
Clovis News Journal from Clovis New

1207
00:53:44,770 --> 00:53:40,020
Mexico right on the front page it says

1208
00:53:48,170 --> 00:53:44,780
FYI alien abductees Boulder Colorado

1209
00:53:51,829 --> 00:53:48,180
Associated Press aliens are abducting

1210
00:53:54,890 --> 00:53:51,839
humans and one of them looks like Irish

1211
00:53:57,410 --> 00:53:54,900
singer Sinead O'Connor at least that's

1212
00:54:00,170 --> 00:53:57,420
the word of a woman who says she was on

1213
00:54:02,690 --> 00:54:00,180
board an extraterrestrial craft Leah

1214
00:54:05,990 --> 00:54:02,700
Haley told her story at the UFO

1215
00:54:08,569 --> 00:54:06,000
phenomenon conference Sunday in Boulder

1216
00:54:11,750 --> 00:54:08,579
what they are lacking is any real

1217
00:54:14,569 --> 00:54:11,760
physical evidence that is irrefutable

1218
00:54:17,450 --> 00:54:14,579
said Kendrick Frazier of Albuquerque

1219
00:54:19,190 --> 00:54:17,460
editor of the skeptical Inquirer a

1220
00:54:21,049 --> 00:54:19,200
magazine published by the committee for

1221
00:54:23,809 --> 00:54:21,059
the scientific investigation of claims

1222
00:54:26,809 --> 00:54:23,819
of the Paranormal and if a person has

1223
00:54:30,170 --> 00:54:26,819
been abducted a federal crime why not

1224
00:54:33,470 --> 00:54:30,180
report it to the FBI one reason may be

1225
00:54:35,850 --> 00:54:33,480
that there is a large fine against false

1226
00:54:39,849 --> 00:54:35,860
reporting Frasier said

1227
00:54:42,109 --> 00:54:39,859
[Music]

1228
00:54:44,030 --> 00:54:42,119
so there we are just a couple of news

1229
00:54:46,329 --> 00:54:44,040
items reported in the pages of the

1230
00:54:50,630 --> 00:54:46,339
American Press about a late friend

1231
00:54:54,589 --> 00:54:50,640
Kendrick Frazier and you can see what a

1232
00:54:56,329 --> 00:54:54,599
uh what a wonderful career he had as an

1233
00:54:58,069 --> 00:54:56,339
editor of the skeptical Inquirer and he

1234
00:55:00,170 --> 00:54:58,079
was there right at the beginning

1235
00:55:01,490 --> 00:55:00,180
right at the formation right in the

1236
00:55:05,630 --> 00:55:01,500
early days

1237
00:55:08,750 --> 00:55:05,640
of the uh the whole skeptical movement

1238
00:55:11,809 --> 00:55:08,760
a great loss but I think Kendrick lived

1239
00:55:15,660 --> 00:55:11,819
a uh a full and very interesting life

1240
00:55:15,670 --> 00:55:30,349
[Music]

1241
00:55:34,430 --> 00:55:32,089
thank you for listening to the skeptic

1242
00:55:37,390 --> 00:55:34,440
Zone podcast this week and thank you to

1243
00:55:41,150 --> 00:55:37,400
those listeners who support the show at

1244
00:55:42,849 --> 00:55:41,160
skepticzone.tv by your patreon or PayPal

1245
00:55:46,730 --> 00:55:42,859
contributions

1246
00:55:49,130 --> 00:55:46,740
monthly weekly whatever you can even do

1247
00:55:51,710 --> 00:55:49,140
a one-off contribution whatever you can

1248
00:55:55,670 --> 00:55:51,720
do certainly does help keep the show

1249
00:55:57,410 --> 00:55:55,680
going now for uh whatever it is 14 plus

1250
00:55:59,690 --> 00:55:57,420
years

1251
00:56:02,150 --> 00:55:59,700
hello the birds are starting to chirp

1252
00:56:03,589 --> 00:56:02,160
outside the sun has come up now

1253
00:56:06,049 --> 00:56:03,599
yes

1254
00:56:09,890 --> 00:56:06,059
although luckily being a Sunday morning

1255
00:56:10,970 --> 00:56:09,900
it's a bit quiet and the airport hasn't

1256
00:56:13,250 --> 00:56:10,980
opened yet

1257
00:56:14,870 --> 00:56:13,260
there are lots of aircraft sort of just

1258
00:56:17,390 --> 00:56:14,880
hovering well they're not hovering they

1259
00:56:20,630 --> 00:56:17,400
plan it so they're inbound and just

1260
00:56:23,630 --> 00:56:20,640
after six o'clock they start to take off

1261
00:56:28,190 --> 00:56:23,640
and start to land so to get my recording

1262
00:56:30,290 --> 00:56:28,200
done before the uh the flight traffic is

1263
00:56:32,210 --> 00:56:30,300
uh always a good thing

1264
00:56:34,849 --> 00:56:32,220
well sometimes I'm not awake in time

1265
00:56:37,510 --> 00:56:34,859
coming up on next week's show I hope to

1266
00:56:41,930 --> 00:56:37,520
bring you an interview with Xeon lights

1267
00:56:43,609 --> 00:56:41,940
the activists from the UK and she was a

1268
00:56:46,210 --> 00:56:43,619
recent guest of ours here in Sydney at

1269
00:56:49,069 --> 00:56:46,220
Skeptics in the pub a very interesting

1270
00:56:51,710 --> 00:56:49,079
character indeed when it comes to the

1271
00:56:54,170 --> 00:56:51,720
future of our planet and the energy

1272
00:56:56,450 --> 00:56:54,180
resources we should be using something

1273
00:56:59,030 --> 00:56:56,460
to look forward to but for this week

1274
00:57:04,930 --> 00:56:59,040
this is Richard Saunders signing off

1275
00:57:11,829 --> 00:57:07,250
you've been listening to the skeptic

1276
00:57:14,109 --> 00:57:11,839
Zone podcast please visit our website at

1277
00:57:17,210 --> 00:57:14,119
www.skepticzone.tv for show notes

1278
00:57:20,809 --> 00:57:17,220
contacts and to access the back catalog

1279
00:57:22,730 --> 00:57:20,819
of episodes going back to 2008.

1280
00:57:26,329 --> 00:57:22,740
you can follow the skeptic Zone podcast

1281
00:57:28,670 --> 00:57:26,339
on Twitter at skepticzone visit our

1282
00:57:29,990 --> 00:57:28,680
Facebook page or leave a review on

1283
00:57:32,210 --> 00:57:30,000
iTunes

1284
00:57:35,510 --> 00:57:32,220
you can also support the skeptic Zone

1285
00:57:38,870 --> 00:57:35,520
via patreon or PayPal the skeptic Zone

1286
00:57:40,549 --> 00:57:38,880
podcast is an independent production the

1287
00:57:42,650 --> 00:57:40,559
views and opinions expressed on the

1288
00:57:44,990 --> 00:57:42,660
skeptic zone are not necessarily those

1289
00:57:50,210 --> 00:57:45,000
of Australian Skeptics or any other

1290
00:57:50,220 --> 00:57:58,809
foreign

1291
00:58:05,270 --> 00:58:02,630
the object as a small tube suspended on

1292
00:58:14,900 --> 00:58:05,280
a thin horizontal wire pulled by a

1293
00:58:18,349 --> 00:58:16,309
[Music]

1294
00:58:26,570 --> 00:58:18,359
way

1295
00:58:30,650 --> 00:58:27,829
[Music]

1296
00:58:38,510 --> 00:58:32,470
and identified

1297
00:58:41,270 --> 00:58:38,520
tube suspended on a thin horizontal wire

1298
00:58:45,170 --> 00:58:41,280
pulled by a thread across the area

1299
00:58:46,730 --> 00:58:45,180
filmed people who may also belong to

1300
00:58:48,710 --> 00:58:46,740
traditional

1301
00:58:52,670 --> 00:58:48,720
what is it

1302
00:58:54,049 --> 00:58:52,680
hmm

1303
00:58:57,890 --> 00:58:54,059
what

1304
00:59:03,589 --> 00:58:57,900
I'm

1305
00:59:05,690 --> 00:59:03,599
I know

1306
00:59:08,590 --> 00:59:05,700
you want to scratch